Bittylicious

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General

Hi Siddig,

Thanks very much for getting in touch!

What we're ultimately after is for Bittylicious to go global and for there to be extra redundancy in the UK. Bittylicious as a trading platform in the back end is pretty neat, and works by automatically monitoring bank accounts for the payments, and naturally the front end has all the features (email and phone validation and soon ID validation) as well as various risk controls.

We encourage people to use our clients (source available) to log into bank accounts to match trades, but this is optional. We have made clients for some bank accounts, but not many.

Regarding the actual Bitcoins that could be sold, the plan is for you to send some to Bittylicious and ultimately we direct users to your pay into your bank account and sell them on. Do you have a suitable source of Bitcoins that's pretty cheap? I guess you'd need to match the current price as an example.

I look forward to hearing from you. We have a few sellers on board but it's still early days, so please let me know your thoughts.

Most information on getting started is available at https://bittylicious.com/help/ under the Information for Sellers section. We would need a public key from you, as well as confirmation that you have gotten 'sign.php' working.

Kind regards,

Marc

Detailed

Things we'd need to think about are:

• Do you think you would need or like the ability to set a price? The system would pick whatever is cheapest at any time.
• From a legal perspective, it makes more sense for the buyer to have an agreement with you, just using Bittylicious as a platform. Does that seem sensible to you?
• Fraud happens, but Bittylicious is designed to stop that as much as possible with various validation methods and maximum amounts that can be purchased. If some kind of fraud notification comes through and your bank decides that a payment needs to be reversed (it can happen) then you'll be the one liable.
• Fees that we'd take. We're thinking 1-2%, and we also think you can charge a fair amount more than the cheapest Bitcoins you can buy (which was something like 6-7% above today).
• Open to any other thoughts and ramblings!

Dutch Incorporation

• Limited companies
• Margin VAT - margeregeling
• Mailbox
• BitServiceX
• Interesting Dutch thread on VAT and Bitcions
• Gibraltar outside EU Fiscal Zone
• HMRC place of supply / place of belonging
• Out law article on place of supply for customers being customer's country
• Legislation supporting Out Law article above concerning place of supply - three flowcharts are in the annex

Incorporation Companies

• Notaris Schaap [email protected] - sent email 14/08/2013
• http://www.bvgoedkoopensnel.nl/bvoprichten.html - 305 EUR
• http://www.degoedkoopstenotaris.nl/stichting_bedrijf/resultaat/producten/bv_oprichten General comparison
• http://www.startflexbv.com/starting-a-flex-bv/ - sent contact form 14/08/2013
• http://www.company-webshop.com/en/dutch-bv.html EUR 599 but speak English
• http://www.onlineflexbvoprichten.nl/ EUR 345

Contacts

Bank accounts - Ready to go

Luke Watson <[email protected]>

• Talked to various UK banks
• Has HSBC account that requires a token. Asking if he can get another one.
• Applied for Halifax bank account and has online access.
• Going to provide public key. Emailed 31/07/2013

Theo Sauls <[email protected]>

• South African entrepreneur
• Has account that doesn't require card readers
• Informed about our plan to have an API
• Happy to use CurrencyFair to get cheap Bitcoins
• Investigating ways to get money onto exchanges
• Trying to set up OpenSSL/PHP
• Emailed 07/08/2013
• Sent followup 13/10/2013

Jason Andrews <[email protected]>

• UK based with UK bank account
• Interested. Discussing finer points.
• All looks good. Asked about what bank account he's going to use.
• Has Citibank and Natwest. I suggested either and also manual trading for now.
• Trading using Santander account.
• Added as a seller on 28/07/2013
• Awaiting NDA 31/08/2013

Jonathan Day <[email protected]>

• Based in Jersey
• Interested in running a Bitcoin business anyway
• Currently uses Yodlee but that's daily only
• Pretty much good to go - waiting on information on bank accounts and BTC availability.
• Says he has a NatWest account and some Bitcoins. Told him that we'd need access or he'll need to manually trade.
• Wants to begin on a manual basis.
• Confirmed Jersey is in the UK Faster Payments system
• Has gone live, although two trades went into dispute.
• Emailed 31/07/2013

joha3n live.com <[email protected]>

• Halifax account
• Seems fine with the finer points
• Name is Mr H. Nguyen, 6-10 St Georges Way, PO1 3AJ, Portsmouth
• Bank account: acc #: 10921666, sort code: 11-06-15, Bank: Halifax.,
• Sent the Halifax client to try out
• Activated as seller on 03/08/2013
• Emailed 31/08/2013

Simon Gaulter <[email protected]>

• Live on 01/08/2013
• PhD student
• Using Natwest. Getting a HSBC one, but that won't be very useful
• gh12as on #BitBargain or #bitcoin-otc-uk
• Scraping clients at https://github.com/simick/BankScrapers
• Tweaking Natwest client to with with BittyClient
• No need to send emails

David.R.Gilson <[email protected]>

• Currently a journalist and too difficult to do now
• Trading through September but looking to get things working soon
• Made a seller on Bittylicious
• Sent email 31/08/2013

Gavin Lambert <>

• Runs http://www.bitcoin123.co.uk/
• Probably not that technically minded - can't get sign.php working on his own
• Intending on selling at Gox +2%
• Emailed 26/08/2013

Jack Dinn <[email protected]>

• Registered on BitBargain
• Playing with that first, then will get back in touch
• Emailed 07/08/2013

Bank accounts - In progress

P V <[email protected]>

• Looking to open up in Canada
• Happy to manually trade to begin with
• Sent email 13/10/2013

Radek Ilendo <[email protected]>

• Has 2 Barclays accounts
• Asking correct questions
• Emailed followup email on 31/08/2013
• Sent final followup on 13/10/2013

Paul Ingham <[email protected]>

• Technically competent
• Sent email 24/08/2013
• Sent followup email on 13/10/2013

Markus Olszewski <[email protected]>

• Potential to open an account in Poland
• Had to cash out so doesn't have any coins at the moment. He'll get in touch if he gets any.
• Sent email 31/08/2013

John Adams <[email protected]>

• Possibly interested in launching in South Korea
• Sent followup email on 31/08/2013
• Sent final followup on 13/10/2013

Morgan Quinn <[email protected]>

• In discussion
• Considering opening a suitable account
• Emailed 31/08/2013
• Sent followup on 13/10/2013

Tom Stanton <[email protected]>

• I think he wanted to buy via BTCe
• Waiting for Citibank to open an account for him
• Emailed 31/08/2013
• Sent followup on 13/10/2013

Paul Gaston <[email protected]>

• Lives in Poland. Looking into retail accounts there (instant)
• Also looking into getting a UK account
• Emailed 11/08/2013
• Sent followup on 13/10/2013

Antony Buonomo <[email protected]>

• UK, discussing finer points
• Sent email 09/08/2013
• Sent followup on 13/10/2013

[email protected]

• Bank has security codes from an ID and encrypted Java. Willing to do lookups manually at certain times.
• Sent followup on 13/10/2013

Richard Clark <[email protected]>

• Happy to write client for Metrobank.
• Will hopefully complete work on this tonight.
• Sent email 23/07/2013
• Sent followup on 13/10/2013

Siddig Zeidan [email protected]

• Interested in offering bank account in Ireland in principle.
• Quite concerned about banks not liking the bot-like nature of the account scraping
• Concerned, but getting less so, about the whole thing
• Has an account with zero money in, so ideal for testing when ready
• Sent email saying we're ready to start 28/07/2013
• Sent followup on 11/08/2013
• Sent final followup on 13/10/2013

Ben Watson <[email protected]>

• Has a Halifax account
• Sent email 26/06/2013
• Asked various questions on bank accounts, Gox tracking etc. Seems interested.
• Brother of Luke Watson
• Got Halifax account
• Sent email saying we're ready to go 30/07/2013
• Sent followup 11/08/2013. He's quite busy with a new job though.
• Sent final followup on 13/10/2013

Jordan Davenport <[email protected]>

• UK bank account and has collateral
• Talked about Sofort banking and seems to be concerned that automated logins are technically difficult
• Informed user that this won't be difficult. I asked questions about his Bitcoin involvement and how he wants to take things forwards.
• Finding out about their bank account, how they can get coins etc.
• Doesn't have dedicated account yet, nor a source of cheap Bitcoins
• Has just one BTC.
• Finding it difficult to get a dedicated account right now.
• Sent email on 30/07/2013 - left with them.
• Sent final followup on 13/10/2013

Sam Blackmore <[email protected]>

• New Zealand
• Runs Aukland Bitcoin meetup. Has hosting company.
• Possibly wants to be exclusive in NZ
• Opening a new bank account and testing Bitcoin transfers as existing account is Bitcoin-unfriendly
• Would like video call to seal deal
• Sent email 13/10/2013

Robert Margin <[email protected]>

• Gibraltar based
• Wants there to be a clearer introduction to Bitcoins
• Banks with Lloyds LSB
• Sent email explaining in details how things would work 05/07/2013
• Sent followup email on 28/07/2013
• Sent email regarding Gibraltar on 31/08/2013

Petr Sedlacek <[email protected]>

• Has UK and Czech bank accounts
• No inter-bank instant transfers in CZ yet
• Sent email 09/07/2013
• Sent followup on 13/10/2013

Sascha Klingsch <[email protected]>

• Has accounts in USA and Canada
• Emailed with initial information on 11/07/2013
• All sounds technically possible. Discussing finer points.
• Sent me a draft NDA on 19/07/2013
• Sent email on 11/08/2013
• Sent final followup on 13/10/2013

Robbie Andrews <[email protected]>

• UK
• Experienced, wants to get on board
• Discussing finer points
• Emailed on 23/07/2013
• Sent followup on 11/08/2013
• Sent final followup on 13/10/2013

Bank accounts - On hold

Karl Chappé <[email protected]>

• Bitcoin enthusiast in France
• For online transfers, payments work as follows:
  • D : a user makes an online transfer to your bank in France. His account will be debited same day.
  • D+1 : your bank receives the money at 13:30.
• Discussing finer points
• Split up with girlfriend/lost baby. Leaving with them.
• Sent email on 05/08/2013

Martin McLean <[email protected]>

• Wants to sell coins in the UK
• Doesn't have a very reliable source of coins yet.
• Doesn't want to give bank details (fine). Seems genuinely interested and up for it.
• Discussing his questions 16/07/2013
• Cashed out of Bitcoins on 30/07/2013 but will wait until he gets interested again in investing.

Ritchie Hamilton <[email protected]>

• Has a Spanish bank account. Could put up BTC.
• Sent email 26/06/2013
• On hold - scared about auto logins.

Karel Anseeuw [email protected]

• Belgium trader with Bitcoins and bank accounts.
• Sent followup email 26/06/2013
• Would have to register as a money transfer agency - too expensive.

Mike Silver <[email protected]>

• UK, Lloyds. Interested in selling his Bitcoins through his online business.
• No funds at present because pumped all money into his own business.
• Sent email 09/07/2013

Bank accounts - gone cold

simon quysner <[email protected]>

• Moved from the UK to Romania
• Has a UK account at the moment but opening one in Romania shortly.
• Emailed on 13/07/2013
• Sent followup on 28/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 11/08/2013

Sid Remmer <[email protected]>

• Web developer, long time bitcoin enthusiast and has spare time
• Emailed potential opportunities 04/07/2013
• Sent followup on 28/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 11/08/2013

Matt Rodders <[email protected]>

• British but lives in France
• Makes physical Bitcoins
• Only has a business account - doesn't want to use
• Sent email 09/07/2013
• Sent followup on 28/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 11/08/2013

Dimitris Tsakos <[email protected]>

• NL, DE and GR
• Good communicattion and interested.
• Discussing finer points
• Possibly wants exclusivity in those countries
• Worried about volatility - discussing automated buying from a market
• Sent email on 09/07/2013
• Sent followup email on 28/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 11/08/2013

Grant Ferguson <[email protected]>

• From Scotland
• Sent email detailing the process more on 04/07/2013
• Sent followup on 28/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 11/08/2013

Steve Lund <[email protected]>

• Clearly quite technical and business knowledgeable
• Responded not really understanding why bank accounts should be used. Is technically minded.
• Emailed 15/07/2013
• Sent followup on 28/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 11/08/2013

Jonathan Hunter <[email protected]>

• Has a FNB account in South Africa with a lot of money in.
• Agrees it's difficult to buy Bitcoins there.
• Discussing ways to buy cheap Bitcoins. It's difficult to make Forex transactions in SA.
• Speaking with bank to see if it's possible to do Forex.
• Sent email 10/07/2013
• Sent followup on 28/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 11/08/2013

Matt Hopwood [email protected]

• Interested from an Australian perspective.
• Sent followup email 26/06/2013
• Sent followup email 03/07/2013
• Sent final followup on 09/07/2013

Major Lee Blunt <[email protected]>

• Simply asked how many BTC you need as collateral
• Sent email on 30/06/2013
• Sent final followup on 09/07/2013

Miscellaneous useful

Charlie Biggs <[email protected]>

• Works for a tech security company
• Experienced in PHP
• Informed me about a XSS reflection vulnerability which is now fixed

Chas Baar <[email protected]>

• Starting site to do the opposite - sell Bitcoins
• Would like to get involved as a seller
• Had good phone call on 02/07/2013

Steven Garner <[email protected]>

• Runs Bittox
• Had really good chat. Happy to share knowledge
• 07905558777

Stephen Keane <[email protected]>

• Happy to beta test

Guergana Bitcoins <[email protected]>

• Interested from a Luxembourg perspective
• Really just ended up being a chat

Jon <[email protected]>

• Happy to do free website development
• Has his own idea for a bitcoin site
• Interested in hosting options for bitcoind
• Last emailed 09/07/2013

Sam Shiles <[email protected]>

• Developer
• Emailed saying we're OK but bank clients would be useful on 04/07/2013

Michael Paleokrassas <[email protected]>

• Bitcoin trader
• Last emailed on 26/07/2013

Legal

Chat with bitnumus

12:58 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] well, this is why i'm getting legal advice
12:58 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] they have no grounds to sue
12:58 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] from what i've established
12:59 [msg(bitnumus)] That's what I've determined from my own research, secondary legal advice fromothers.
12:59 < BitBargain:#BitBargain> Sold 5 BTC @ 70.34 GBP via UKBT (7 minutes)
12:59 [msg(bitnumus)] Although the whole regulation thing is a funny one as, naturally, there's no information on what needs to be regulated.
12:59 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] there are large fines and prison sentences for operating an unregulated financial business
12:59 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] however, the FCA told me bitcoin itself is no inside their scope currently
12:59 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] however. the payment part might be
13:00 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] but they cannot advise lol.
13:00 < BitBargain:#BitBargain> Sold 0.48 BTC @ 74.90 GBP via PYC (2 minutes)
13:00 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] look into EMRs and PSDs
13:00 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] i think its chapter 15 of the PERGs
13:00 [msg(bitnumus)] Yeah, I have looked into it a bit. I'll looking the PERG thing though (what does that one stand for?)
13:01 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] https://fshandbook.info/FS/html/handbook/PERG/15
13:01 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] there it is
13:01 [msg(bitnumus)] Gone down the HMRC AML route for now which isn't regulation, but gives me some codes to stand by (and they do a check on me)
13:01 [msg(bitnumus)] Thanks
13:01 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] i do not agree that this applies to my model, this is what i am receiving legal advise about
13:01 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] registered as a MSB?
13:01 [msg(bitnumus)] Now on my reading list for tonight :)
13:02 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] i'm waiting for a letter back from the HMRC AML Supervision department
13:02 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] been waiting for 4-5weeks so far
13:02 [msg(bitnumus)] /msg bitnumus Technically just registering for HMRC AML - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/mlr/getstarted/register/index.htm
13:02 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] again, i don't agree its within their scope, so if they say that i will contest it.
13:02 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] yes, this would be under
13:02 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] Information for Money Service Businesses, High Value Dealers, Accountancy Service Providers, Trust or Company Service Providers
13:02 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] MSB
13:02 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] i do not agree it is a MSB model
13:03 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] they need to clarify their definition of money to me.
13:03 [msg(bitnumus)] I agree. Closest is currency exchange which isn't right either.
13:03 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] it will contradict other letters people have about them saying they are vouchers.
13:03 [msg(bitnumus)] The voucher thing makes no sense to me
13:03 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] if they finally write to me saying its a MSB, i will challenge it with letters from themselves lol
13:04 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] well, it does and it doesn't
13:04 < Benmhodges:#BitBargain> How do I get on to buying them without as I kep getting directed to the verify page?
13:04 [bitnumus(~bitnumus@unaffiliated/bitnumus)] they need to make their mind up basically
13:04 [msg(bitnumus)] Heh! Well, I'll certainlly let you know the outcome from my side but please do let me know what they eventually say on your end